Good Knife for a good price...

[taipantoo]

When i first got together with my wife, about 20 years ago, she had a draw full of mongrel utensils. What I mean by mongrel is that there was not a set of anything, just a collection of mismatched everything. Anyway, I sharpened all her knives with my sharpener which is a vice to hold the blade and a piece offset by 90* with 5 holes to create various angles for the diamond stones which had long rods sticking out the end of them. As the knives got dull, I threw them out until there were only a few left. What I discovered was that if the name of the knife was stamped into the blade the knife was junk. If the name of the knife was cut into the blade then the quality of the blade was high carbon sleel and the edge would last a long time. My favorite knife today is the one that she inherited from her Grandmother. It's blade is almost black, high carbon but not stainless, with a rose wood handle and brass rivets. I think this knife could be close to 100 years old. They just don't make things like the used to.
I hone this knife a few times on each side of the blade everytime I use it. Honing really just straightens out a crooked edge as opposed to actually sharpening it.

[John]

I've been perusing this forum for several months and finally joined yesterday - but need to reinvigorate this discussion about knives.

After reading and speaking to my old chef buddy recently (who was featured in the WP last week), it seems that people favor the Japanese steel over their German counterparts.

I'm currently in the process of putting together my wedding registry and have been adding some Shun Classics to our portfolio, but I'd like to get a few knives on my own to add to my collection. I've been looking at getting a Gyuto initially, and have been the following:

Hattori HD 240mm:


Ryusen Blazen 240mm:


Both are recommended knives, but is the first one too much of a show knife? There is a Hattori that looks like the blade of the Ryusen...

Also looking for a good yanagiba and deba knife as well...

[jeff]

Originally Posted by John

Both are recommended knives, but is the first one too much of a show knife?

If the knife fits the hand, who cares. =)

[buzzard767]

Originally Posted by jeff

I've never met a chef that sharpens their own knives. there's a lot to getting the blade just right in order for it to last.

C-Dawg (AKA Chef Curtis Chung) does. He used to work with Wolfgang Puck but is on his own now and doing just fine. He is a contributor to another group where most of us sharpen to insane scary sharp edges, and he's only one of many chefs at that site who do the same thing.

C-Dawg vids:

chop a little lunch with a Chukabocho

try to match your Wustof with C-Dawgs Gyuto slice slice chop chop

how do you measure sharp? this is how

This post presents a nice little argument why high performance Japanese knives are so highly touted. Once a chef or home cook makes the first slice they never go back.........

edit: note the degree of polish on C-Dawg's blades. Completely by hand, no buffing wheel involved.

[jeff]

I've heard nothing but good things about the Japanese knives, I just bought a new knife set 2 months ago, I wanted to buy a Japanese knife but couldn't find anyone local that carried them, I wasn't about go spend $80-150 on a chef knife with out at least getting my hand on it first to see if it fit me.

As far as the videos go I have a Chinese friend Grace Garden who can do that, it makes me sick watching just how fast he can use a knife and still have super clean prep.

I guess if you do it day in and day out for 40 years straight.....

I think its important to have nice clean well sized cuts, rather then fast, however with practice speed comes naturally

[buzzard767]

Originally Posted by jeff

I think its important to have nice clean well sized cuts, rather then fast, however with practice speed comes naturally

Exactly! That's what Japanese knives are all about. It started with samaurai sword manufacturing technology and it has been carried into their kitchen knives. No cooking in the world requires more precise cuts. Sushi anyone?

Originally Posted by jeff

I've heard nothing but good things about the Japanese knives, I just bought a new knife set 2 months ago, I wanted to buy a Japanese knife but couldn't find anyone local that carried them, I wasn't about go spend $80-150 on a chef knife with out at least getting my hand on it first to see if it fit me.

There are ways to try Japanese knives inexpensively. Check out this Tojiro 240mm Gyuto available at Korin in NYC.

Korin - Fine Japanese Tableware and Chef Knives

It's a great way to break into Japanese geometry because it has a 50/50 edge bevel and a western handle. It's only about 60 bucks plus shipping. This NOT some cheapo knife. It's the real deal at a huge bargain. It has wonderful steel hardened to HrC 60 (Rockwell C Scale) as opposed to HrC 54-56 on the German knives. Not only that, it is much MUCH more sharp. German knives are not even capable of getting this sharp. Give them a call and check on their return policy. If you don't like the way it feels you can probably send it back. One thing for sure, I *know* you'll like the way it cuts - right out of the box.

edit: The geometry I'm talking about is the thinness of the blade. It creates less friction than German/Swiss/American made knives and therefore cuts oh so much better. The Japanese features this Tojiro does not have are 20/80 or other ratio double bevels, single bevels, and Japanese (Wa) handles, whether round, octagonal, or D shaped.

Here's a picture of one I had rehandled with mycarta and gave to my daughter and son-in-law for a Christmas present. Even though they're only twenty somethings, they are a funky couple so this 60's hippy psycho acid handle isn't out of place in their kitchen....

[StainlessSteel]

Since this is about Japanese steel, I've heard good things about Misono knives from my friend, who is a professional chef in Vegas now. He uses one everyday for work and home and keeps telling me to order one.

It sucks that most stores don't carry Japanese knives so you can't feel it in your hands. I'd love to consider it but want to hold it before I drop 2 benjamins on it. I ended up buying a Wüsthof last week after spending an hour deciding between 10 other knives. Feels and performs better much better than I expected.

Its like buying a TV or car. When you have it at home, you kind of force yourself to be satisfied with it since you can't do a side by side comparison like you can at the store.

[buzzard767]

The UX10 series Misonos are excellent. I've never read a bad report. Actually, the UX10's use Swedish steel, probably 13C26 or 12C27, both stainless enough to be left wet for a long time. Razor blades are mostly made of 13C26. The carbides in them are among the smallest of all steels, enabling sharpening to any reasonable edge desired. I've seen them as low as 6 degrees per side (standard razors are 7). Your Wustof is 22. The difference is cutting ability is Ferrari vs Volkswagen.

You can improve the Wusthof enormously by giving it a 10 degree profile with a 15 degree primary bevel. This edge will hold up well although it might make the boys in Solingen shiver a bit.