Knives

[buzzard767]

Originally Posted by Dustin_m

Thanks. I looked at the electric sharpeners, but wasn't sure about them. Is there anything to look for in one?

As far as a "nice" knife. what do you all think of the titanium blade ones? I saw the guy on Dinner:Impossible using one and was curious, so I looked em up but I can't remember the brand right now. How do they stack up against the other Japanese ones that have been discussed on here?

I'm hoping to get a good one by my b-day this year or xmas, something in the 100-200 range. lol, gonna have to tell the gf and my mom to just combine their gifts.

Now you're confusing me. I thought price mattered and decided you'd be better off with a manual sharpener like this for 15 bucks. It works fine.

Titanium blades are best used as salt water dive knives. In the kitchen they're a fad like ceramics and grantons. There is nothing gained by any of these things. Comparing titaniums or Wusthofs etc. to quality Japanese knives is like comparing Fords to Ferraries - different league.

Heed this warning if you're going to get a Japanese knife. They sharpen "differently". Run them through any kind of standard sharpener and you will ruin the edge. Hone them with the grooved steels that commonly come in knife blocks and you will ruin the edge. You have to learn to free hand with waterstones or buy an expensive device like an EdgePro. There is one and only one exception and that is any knife in the Shun line. If you want a very nice chef's knife I recommend this one. All Shuns come with factory edges ground at 16 degrees per side (32 degree included angle). The beauty of this is that Shun also sells an electric sharpener that matches that angle exactly. It's the easy way out, but it works.

Custom Japanese knives are a different animal and to maintain them you either have to go the free handing/EdgePro route or use something like a borosilicate microgrooved glass rod to hold the edge until it needs to be sent to a professional for resharpening. By professional I am not talking about your local guy with a grinder. He will ruin your edge just as sure as the other methods noted above. The knife would need to go to a pro like Dave Martell who specializes in sharpening/fixing Japanese knives.

Hope this helps.

[Dustin_m]

Originally Posted by buzzard767

Now you're confusing me. I thought price mattered and decided you'd be better off with a manual sharpener like this for 15 bucks. It works fine.

Titanium blades are best used as salt water dive knives. In the kitchen they're a fad like ceramics and grantons. There is nothing gained by any of these things. Comparing titaniums or Wusthofs etc. to quality Japanese knives is like comparing Fords to Ferraries - different league.

Heed this warning if you're going to get a Japanese knife. They sharpen "differently". Run them through any kind of standard sharpener and you will ruin the edge. Hone them with the grooved steels that commonly come in knife blocks and you will ruin the edge. You have to learn to free hand with waterstones or buy an expensive device like an EdgePro. There is one and only one exception and that is any knife in the Shun line. If you want a very nice chef's knife I recommend this one. All Shuns come with factory edges ground at 16 degrees per side (32 degree included angle). The beauty of this is that Shun also sells an electric sharpener that matches that angle exactly. It's the easy way out, but it works.

Custom Japanese knives are a different animal and to maintain them you either have to go the free handing/EdgePro route or use something like a borosilicate microgrooved glass rod to hold the edge until it needs to be sent to a professional for resharpening. By professional I am not talking about your local guy with a grinder. He will ruin your edge just as sure as the other methods noted above. The knife would need to go to a pro like Dave Martell who specializes in sharpening/fixing Japanese knives.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info. Yes, right now price matters, but getting a good knife is something I have been meaning to get for a long time. I am cooking at least 3 or 4 times a week, and nothing in the kitchen bothers me more than not having a nice knife. As far as the titanium, that was kind of the response that I was expecting, that it was a trend thing. No problem.

What I want is to get a knife that with the right care will last pretty much forever. I don't necessarily want the most expensive, sharpest, or high quality knife, just something that is going to perform well for me and is worth the $$.

I notice that here it seems there is a preference for Japanese over German. What's the reason for that?

Also, I would really consider buying the glass rod to take care of a japanese knife, but will sending it out to someone be very expensive?

[buzzard767]

Originally Posted by Dustin_m

What I want is to get a knife that with the right care will last pretty much forever. I don't necessarily want the most expensive, sharpest, or high quality knife, just something that is going to perform well for me and is worth the $$.

Two knives I would recommend:

First is the Hiromoto TJ-20AS 240mm (9.4") Gyuto. Gyutos are the Japanese versions of chef's knives. The generally have a French profile. The "AS" above stands for Aogami Super. AS is Hitachi Blue Super Steel and is the best carbon steel in the world for knife blades. Period! The cladding is a much softer stainless. Carbon edges must be washed and dried immediately after use or they'll rust. You can get them here for $131.75. Shipping is only $7.00 from Japan. It's a bargain as most AS knives sell for much more. The knife in the picture is the same one except I had it rehandled and gave it to my daughter and son-in-law for a present. They love it.

The second knife is this Tojiro 240 Gyuto. It's only $59.50 plus shipping from New York. Korin is a Japanese trading/importing company. If you are in or near NY you can go to their store and see them for yourself. Tojiro makes several different styles, most with steel handles, but this wooden handled Toji is the one I like best. If you mouse around the Korin site you'll see that they say the edge is carbon. They made a mistake. It is Swedish stainless and does not rust easily. I have a 270mm Sujihiki (slicer) and the edge would have developed patina long ago. It's "brand new" shiney.

Originally Posted by Dustin_m

I notice that here it seems there is a preference for Japanese over German. What's the reason for that?

There are two major differences. J knives are thinner which means less friction. It might not sound like much but it's a big deal. Secondly, J knives have far better steel, harder for longer life and finer carbons giving the ability to be made much more sharp than the Germans. This also applies to the Swedish steel used by Tojiro. It's very likely Sandvik 13C26. This is the steel razor blades are made of and it makes terrific knife blades.

Originally Posted by Dustin_m

Also, I would really consider buying the glass rod to take care of a japanese knife, but will sending it out to someone be very expensive?

Depends how you look at it. Martell charges $20 to sharpen a Japanese knife plus $12 shipping. You have to ship it to him so that's another $7 or so. The reason he charges more for Japanese is because he has to take more time and effort. 99% of double beveled J knives are not 50/50. Some are 30/70, some 20/80, etc. Dave follows the original factory bevels plus thinning the blade above the edge. The good news is that if you are cooking four times a week and: 1) the blade never touches bone 2) the board is either end grain wood or a Sani-Tuff -- it will only need sharpening once a year or so.

[Dustin_m]

Originally Posted by buzzard767

Two knives I would recommend:

First is the Hiromoto TJ-20AS 240mm (9.4") Gyuto. Gyutos are the Japanese versions of chef's knives. The generally have a French profile. The "AS" above stands for Aogami Super. AS is Hitachi Blue Super Steel and is the best carbon steel in the world for knife blades. Period! The cladding is a much softer stainless. Carbon edges must be washed and dried immediately after use or they'll rust. You can get them here for $131.75. Shipping is only $7.00 from Japan. It's a bargain as most AS knives sell for much more. The knife in the picture is the same one except I had it rehandled and gave it to my daughter and son-in-law for a present. They love it.

The second knife is this Tojiro 240 Gyuto. It's only $59.50 plus shipping from New York. Korin is a Japanese trading/importing company. If you are in or near NY you can go to their store and see them for yourself. Tojiro makes several different styles, most with steel handles, but this wooden handled Toji is the one I like best. If you mouse around the Korin site you'll see that they say the edge is carbon. They made a mistake. It is Swedish stainless and does not rust easily. I have a 270mm Sujihiki (slicer) and the edge would have developed patina long ago. It's "brand new" shiney.



There are two major differences. J knives are thinner which means less friction. It might not sound like much but it's a big deal. Secondly, J knives have far better steel, harder for longer life and finer carbons giving the ability to be made much more sharp than the Germans. This also applies to the Swedish steel used by Tojiro. It's very likely Sandvik 13C26. This is the steel razor blades are made of and it makes terrific knife blades.



Depends how you look at it. Martell charges $20 to sharpen a Japanese knife plus $12 shipping. You have to ship it to him so that's another $7 or so. The reason he charges more for Japanese is because he has to take more time and effort. 99% of double beveled J knives are not 50/50. Some are 30/70, some 20/80, etc. Dave follows the original factory bevels plus thinning the blade above the edge. The good news is that if you are cooking four times a week and: 1) the blade never touches bone 2) the board is either end grain wood or a Sani-Tuff -- it will only need sharpening once a year or so.

Just the info I was looking for. thanks. also, when he sharpens them, does he do that hand buffing like i see on some of your guys' knives, or is that something i can do on my own?

[buzzard767]

Originally Posted by Dustin_m

Just the info I was looking for. thanks. also, when he sharpens them, does he do that hand buffing like i see on some of your guys' knives, or is that something i can do on my own?

Dave can do that sort of work but it's labor intensive and therefore not inexpensive. You can do it DIY. Check out this thread - looks like a good product to me.

[buzzard767]

Here's an excellent video showing Japanese geometry at maximum performance. C_Dawg is Curtis Chung. He used to work with Wolfgang Puck and is now a head chef in the SF Bay area.

[jheis]

I've got a couple of the little Suncrafts with the saya. I use them as picnic knives & keep one in each of my cars.

Suncrafts are made by Kawashima Ind. in Seki City. The steel is 420 series SS.

I've seen them as cheap as $5.99 online - incredible deal an a great little knife!

I've also found Suncraft knives marketed under the Kotobuki brand & the Messermeister Mu label.

James

[jeff]

Originally Posted by jheis

I've got a couple of the little Suncrafts with the saya. I use them as picnic knives & keep one in each of my cars.

Suncrafts are made by Kawashima Ind. in Seki city. The steel is 420 series SS.

I've seen them as cheap as $5.99 online - incredible deal an a great little knife!

I've also found Suncraft knives marketed under the Kotobuki brand & the Messermeister Mu label.

James

Got any links to them?

[jheis]

I put up a couple of links the other day in response to Jeff's request, but they seem to have disappeared for some reason....

Anyway, here is a link to the site that is selling them for $5.99:

Amazon.com: Kotobuki Fruit Knife with Wood Cover: Kitchen & Dining

James

[jeff]

Originally Posted by jheis

I put up a couple of links the other day in response to Jeff's request, but they seem to have disappeared for some reason....

Anyway, here is a link to the site that is selling them for $5.99:

Amazon.com: Kotobuki Fruit Knife with Wood Cover: Kitchen & Dining

James

I might have deleted them thinking they were spam, this site gets spammed pretty bad, no/low post + links tend to stand out as spam.

I do remember asking you in one of the post for a link to the 5.99 knife you talked about.

Sorry for deleting them.

Believe it or not I've had that same knife for many years now, however I dont use it often, I find that it's very light and not the sharped, however for fruit like cutting a grape fruit open, it would be a nice knife.